Beyond The Therapy Room

Ep 04: The Fear of Being Seen

• Ali & Sky • Season 1 • Episode 4

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0:00 | 17:17

You know you're capable of more. You have the skills, the knowledge, and the desire to make a bigger impact. So why does putting yourself out there feel so uncomfortable?

In this episode of Beyond the Therapy Room, Sky and Ali explore one of the biggest barriers that keeps therapists, helpers, and entrepreneurs stuck: the fear of being seen.

Whether you've spent a lifetime feeling too much, not enough, too loud, too quiet, or simply more comfortable supporting others from behind the scenes, visibility can feel deeply vulnerable. Together, Skye and Ali unpack how childhood conditioning, professional roles, and protective identities can keep us hidden—even when we think we're showing up.

From social media and business growth to relationships, body image, and self-expression, this conversation is an invitation to gently challenge the stories keeping you invisible and start taking small, safe steps toward being fully seen.

✨ In this episode, we discuss:

  •  Why self-awareness alone doesn't always create change 
  •  The hidden ways therapists and helpers become invisible 
  •  Fear of judgment, failure, success, and taking up space 
  •  How visibility impacts your business, relationships, and confidence 
  •  The difference between performing and authentically showing up 
  •  Practical ways to build your visibility muscle safely and sustainably 

The world doesn't need a perfected version of you. It needs the real you.

If this episode resonates with you, we'd love to hear from you. Join our community, share your reflections, and let us know what conversations you'd like us to explore in future episodes.

IG: @beyondthe_therapyroom

Ali:

You followed the training, you've built the skills, and you became the therapist. But now you're wondering, "Is this it?" Beyond The Therapy Room is where we have the conversations most therapists are thinking but not saying out loud. There's Skye, psychologist and mentor, and Ally, counselor and tantric healer,

bringing two perspectives:

clinical and intuitive, structured and expansive. We talk burnout, identity, spirituality, business, relationships, and what happens when you stop playing by the rules that you were trained in. This is for the therapist who knows there's more. Two different paths, two different perspectives, but the same truth. There's more available to you than the box you were trained in

Sky:

Welcome to another episode of the podcast. So today, we are going to talk a little bit more around these identities because one of the things that I notice a lot, Ally, and I'm curious if you notice it too, is that so many therapists, psychologists, counselors, occupational therapists, like insert, right, who work with people, have so much awareness of themselves.

Ali:

Mm. Self-awareness is huge. Yeah, we're very insightful about ourselves.

Sky:

Right? And we can listen to the last, um, podcast episode, and we can be like,"I know I'm a people pleaser," or,"I know I'm an overachiever," "I know I'm this," or, "I know I'm that," and yet still feel really, really stuck.

Ali:

Yeah, because that has us overly conscientious and watching ourselves and monitoring ourselves and assessing ourselves and becoming more and more aware of ourselves- and more insightful about ourselves. And that can get really noisy.

Sky:

That just sounded really fucking exhausting.

Ali:

It was.

Sky:

And that's what happens.

Ali:

And we have to somehow come, come to that point so we can overcome it- Yes … and grow beyond it.

Sky:

Yes.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

But we were having conversations, uh, behind the scenes about, like if people know all of this stuff, right? And we know our identities, and we have all of this information about psychology and humanness, like what's the barrier? Like, what is one of the biggest blocks?

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

And we came up with the word visibility.

Ali:

Yes. Sky's seen this in me for years. Yeah. And I know for me, I, I think I have a double whammy in this one as well. Mm. I was the youngest person in my family growing up, and I had a sister who was, um, really loud and very, um, big energy, big personality. She always brings the love and the energy into the room, and often by default then I would feel like I had to remain unseen- Mm … or small, you know?

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Um, but yeah, and, and how that translates to me now is it took… Like, even though I am on social media, or I am doing this podcast and other things, it's not my natural… It's not natural for me to do that. I've really had to push myself and- Yeah … challenge myself to even be seen on a camera.

Sky:

Yeah. I was like, "Ally, let's do another episode." And she's like, "Oh,

Ali:

okay." But this is, you know, it's close to home for me, this one- It is because visibility is important. Mm. And for me, what, what I feel is, yes, there's lots of ways in which I can support people in the therapeutic room.

Sky:

Mm-hmm.

Ali:

And again, beautiful feedback. I'm amazing witnessing people's journeys and their healing and their growth, and I love that. But there is a bigger, wider audience out there.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

And unless I am willing to be online or share in a podcast or a Facebook Live or something, nobody else knows about me.

Sky:

No.

Ali:

Nobody else can, um, receive my unique transmission or-

Sky:

Yeah… Ali: the wisdom that I am here to share. Yeah.

Ali:

So I have to be able to become more comfortable with visibility.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

And Sky's been great at encouraging me- to just keep stepping into it.

Sky:

You know?

Ali:

Just keep stepping into it. And what I've found is that over the years, um, even though it's been quite a journey, each little time I put myself out there, whether it's leading a group with Sky-

Sky:

Mm… Ali: um, or doing the Facebook talking to the therapists more and more in the space here- Yeah like, that's visibility, too. Yeah.

Ali:

Um, I'm exercising a muscle, and in doing that, that's what grows your confidence. That's what helps you be more seen and more comfortable about seeing, being seen, too.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

So if you, if you're gonna continue to remain in that therapeutic space, you're never going to grow the confidence that you need to become more visible.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And I think, um, there's a story around that, right? So it's not necessarily the space itself, but it's the, the role that we are trained to be in in the space.

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

Because when you think about it, if you have prior conditioning around not being seen or not being visible, and then-

Ali:

And… Sky: right? You become the therapist whose sole focus is on somebody else. Yes.

Sky:

Right? And you're hypersensitive, hypervigilant, like you're so attuned to the other person, which, you know, side note, awesome fucking skill, people. Like, let's not discredit that.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

But what starts to happen is you go unseen. And then if we add roles like, I don't know, maybe mom or dad or carer, or we add another role of like, oh my God, and I'm, I'm like full-time worker, and then I'm this, and I'm that, and I'm all of these things to other people-

Ali:

Mm-hmm

Sky:

then there's no space to flex visibility-

Ali:

Yeah… Sky: and being seen. Yeah. And it just kinda compounds itself. Mm-hmm.

Sky:

Like, I know for me, I was actually the opposite to you, Ally. It's like when I was growing up, I was actually the ADHD kid, right? I was diagnosed at five, which I know is unusual for girls, but I was like, I was loud, right? I was naughty. I was in your face. I was like, I had quite a big personality, and the opposite happened for me. I actually learnt pretty quickly, like, I was too much.

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

And so visibility wasn't my natural, like, thing. It was actually being seen was natural and normal for me, and I was taught and conditioned that that was, that was too much for people.

Ali:

Yes.

Sky:

And so the opposite is where I had to kind of like make it smaller and softer- Yeah … and be more mindful of others, and like almost to the point where I didn't realize that I'd kinda lost myself in that.

Ali:

Yeah. It's kinda like a slow shutting down of your expression, because if you're continually viewed as too much, or people are kinda shutting that down as you're growing up, eventually you're withholding yourself, aren't you?

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah. Yeah.

Sky:

Right? And then I would notice there'd be bursts of me come out, and I'd be like, you know, because you're in tune again, and you see people, and you see their face, and you're like, "Oh, that's right. That's a reminder to me I'm too much." Uh-huh. Right? And we don't- consciously do this.

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

But there are gonna be different things for you in your life that trigger not being seen.

Ali:

That's right. Right?

Sky:

I know for a lot of women, um, and this was true of me, like, you know, a few years ago even, right after four kids, was like going to the beach.

Ali:

The bikinis.

Sky:

Like, how fucking terrifying does that sometimes feel for so many women? Because I don't wanna be seen.

Ali:

Mm. Right? I'll wear a big T-shirt over the bikini.

Sky:

You know, keep the big shirts- No one, no one will see my body then … no one's gonna see me, right?

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And so it shows up everywhere. It's not just in that therapeutic space. Mm. It's like, I don't wanna be seen- Trickles out … yeah, at the beach. Yeah. I don't want my body to be seen. Or if you're the person in fucking Woolworths, you're like, "Sorry, sorry, sorry," and you're walking around everybody. You move for the fucking, like-

Ali:

Oh, you're not allowed to take up space. Yes. You have to apologize for taking up space.

Sky:

Right? Not taking up space- Yeah … is also a way that we become invisible.

Ali:

Yes. Yeah. And think about also, too, like for me, I love to work with couples- Mm … and, and, um, my tantra history kind of helps me, um, you know, understand how important that presence is in our relationships. And for me, like I grew up a little bit overweight as a child and, um, never thought I was very pretty or beautiful, so it's been a personal practice of mine in my, um, romantic or intimate relationships to be able to understand that actually I'm not a fat little girl anymore. There is some… There's this beautiful, um, person. Even if I was a, a little bit rounder or cuddlier, that's okay. Yeah. That's my beautiful

Sky:

body. It's who you are.

Ali:

That's my temple, you know? Yes. And being able to be visible to my partner- Yeah … being able to share my body-

Sky:

Yeah… Ali: my essence, my energy, Yeah.

Ali:

You know, because sometimes it is that we might withhold any one of those parts of our- ourselves in our romantic and intimate relationships, too.

Sky:

Absolutely.

Ali:

Yeah. So it's, it… You can stretch yourself or you can have a practice- Mm … um, in so many areas of your life- Mm … around visibility, can't you?

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And I think I… The thing for me that I didn't realize, and my coach has been saying this to me all the time, is like when you, when you try and, um, I don't like that word, when you start to do something- different, right? Yeah. Like for me, it's like I wanna go on social media. I wanna go on TikTok. Like, I, I love this stuff. Like, I have fun, right?

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

But when I started, I was like, "Oh my God, Sky, like, be professional." Mm. Um, don't swear. Um, wear the right clothes, or that person wears makeup, or they have a prop, or I, I started to get so caught up in that there's a way to be seen.

Ali:

Yes.

Sky:

So it, and I didn't realize that was also me being invisible, right? When, when we put conditions around how we're seen-

Ali:

Yeah… Sky: that's actually us being invisible. Exactly. And like I was just saying a moment ago too, Sky, when, you know, the ways in which we all create in the world, they're very already defined. Like, you write a book, it's a table of contents and it's chapters. You start a podcast, there's certain topics or content you're talking about, you know? So a lot of the time before we even go to be visible- Mm … or be expressive and creative, we're already trying to squeeze ourselves into these predefined ideals-

Sky:

Yeah

Ali:

of how to create.

Sky:

Right. I think we, we did it just before we started this podcast, and this is why I like sharing this in real time. It's like Ali was like, "What topic are we gonna do?" And I'm like,"What about this one?" And she's like, "Well, what's the heading?"

Ali:

Yes.

Sky:

Right? Like, what, what, what is the thing? Because when we do a podcast, this is the right way.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And then we both had a little giggle, right?

Ali:

That's right.

Sky:

And we were like, "We're just gonna press record."' Ali: Cause we can do the podcast our Yes. Yeah. But when we get so caught up in there's a right way to be visible, or it just feels really terrifying-

Ali:

Mm

Sky:

on the nervous system to be visible-

Ali:

Yes… Sky: then that's where we stop again. And we- We hit, we hit a, like a roof or a ceiling, don't we?

Sky:

Or sometimes, like, the fucking trap door comes down, right? It's like, no, no, not doing

Ali:

it. Or we, we go back to kind of, like, hiding behind anything that we can. Don't look at me. Yes.

Sky:

And that's, if I bring it back,'cause I like to talk in circles around the TikTok stuff, it's… My coach called me out, and she's like, "Sky, you're there, and you're doing it, and you're online, but I don't see you."

Ali:

Ah.

Sky:

And because in the one-on-ones, like, I like to think I'm pretty fucking funny, you know? Like, it's, some people don't think I am. I think I'm funny. She thought I was funny. And she's like, "When you're on, when you're on this, like, you're not being real. Like, you're not being fun." Like, she says, "I don't feel you."

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

And she's like, "So you're showing me that you're being visible, but really, 'cause I know you, you're invisible still."

Ali:

Yeah. She's not feeling you.

Sky:

That, right, it's like that- Yes … presence. And I think that's the thing. If we, if we start something and we're still stuck in that performing, we're not actually being, and then we're not actually visible. Right? Exactly. I don't know about you, but there's, there's vulnerability in that, right?

Ali:

There sure is, because, you know, I think that we all have a beautiful magic. Like, I feel every single beautiful being in the world has an expression or a gift or a transmission- Yes … that they, only they can share, they can do.

Sky:

Agreed.

Ali:

So, like, you can become a parrot, or you can copy and paste or, or, um, mix someone

Sky:

else- Mix up an AI or whatever it is. Yeah… Ali: yeah, you can do any one people aren't gonna feel you. Yeah.

Ali:

When you show up, and you are yourself, and you're happy to be seen in the expression or essence of who you are-

Sky:

Mm… Ali: it's received so beautifully. Yeah.

Ali:

You know? It's a permission slip in others, like, for others to just be themselves, too.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

And then we can all just feel a bit more relaxed and comfortable and at ease, right?

Sky:

Right, and I think that's again these conversations, because I, I know there's so many of you listening right now who are like, "Oh, I really wanna do this," or, "I really wanna do that," and then you create all of these rules-

Ali:

Mm

Sky:

around why you can't do it.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And I guess what we're wanting to start highlighting is that these rules are really, they're the protection, and this not being seen and not being visible is this protection, and whether it's for you protection of, like, what, like judgment-

Ali:

Mm… Sky: or, um- Failure-

Sky:

Yeah… Ali: or success, 'cause is a new one

Ali:

we worry. Yes. You know? We worry that we, we might… Like, my biggest one with visibility is maybe I'll be so useful to other people that everyone will want a piece of me, and then there'll be no time left for me.

Sky:

Yeah. And

Ali:

for someone who has grown up a, an introvert- Yes … and who loves her solitude, the last thing you want is your calendar full, but calendar full is good for business, too. So, like, we sit with these cognitive dissonances around- Yeah … whether to do or not do something, whether to be seen or not be seen, whether- Mm-hmm … you know, and whether it be a, a worry around failure or success, it's still limiting you. Yeah. It's still capping you from showing yourself to the world.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And so I guess what we want for all of you listening is for you to start just noticing where you're hiding in the shadows a little bit.

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

Because it can look to other people like you're not, like, I'm su- I… You know, a few years ago, showing up on social media, but not really, and we can kid ourselves into being like, "I, I did the thing, and it didn't work. Like, I posted once, and nobody liked it." Yes. Like, who gives a fuck, firstly, and also, like, if you're not putting your whole self into it, and this is what I coach this all the time, then how can you actually gauge the outcome?

Ali:

Mm. Yeah. But- You're just trying to preempt or consider what outcomes will be without even actioning something.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

Okay. So think for yourself, and even currently in the therapy room, like, where are you holding back? Where are you not being seen, or where in your business are you not allowing yourself-

Ali:

Mm… Sky: to be seen or grow? Because wherever that is, is the edge of where you actually, like you said, maybe need to just- Yeah lean

Sky:

that little bit.

Ali:

Spill into that discomfort a bit.

Sky:

Le- a little bit more.

Ali:

Where the growth zone is.

Sky:

Yeah. So what are your thoughts, Ally, around visibility and how people can actually maybe start to pay a little bit more attention of it for themselves? Like, if you had someone in your room right now and you were mentoring them-

Ali:

Mm

Sky:

what would be the advice you'd say?"Look, hey, like, this is what I want you to practice. This is what I want you to start paying attention to." Well,

Ali:

a- again, the real time kind of things that are showing up, where are you, um, withholding your full expression of yourself- Mm.

Sky:

I love that… Ali: you know? Is it that you had something that you thought was really valuable to contribute to a conversation, but for whatever reason you didn't let that come out your mouth? Yeah.

Ali:

Or, um, you know, even if it's music's on and you'll feel, you'll, you feel the music's wanting to move your body, um, but you stop that. You contain-

Sky:

Yeah… Ali: that excitement or that you don't let yourself freely flow with the, with the music. Notice those real time happenings and, and try to challenge or lean into this discomfort. Dance in front of someone, you know, sing in front of your friend. Um, or you know, for me, it's brushing my teeth in front of the mirror. Mm. I sometimes won't even wanna look at my own- Ah… Ali: reflection. Yeah, not even looking- So I

Ali:

have a daily practice, you know, every day I'm looking at my beautiful face in my pearly whites and brushing my teeth.

Sky:

I reckon there's so many people who can relate to not looking at themselves.

Ali:

Mm.

Sky:

And I think that, again, it's that visibility thing. If you're wanting to go online and social media, like you don't wanna look at yourself on camera. I know for me it was like, I don't wanna play back the podcast. Ally, like, I don't like my fucking voice. Yeah. Like, that's weird, right?

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

So it's, it's things like that. Um, 'cause I'm random and I'm ADHD and I like to tell stories, what came to my mind when you were talking was, um, I had a, um, like a, a mentor client, like it was a therapist who was coming to see me.

Ali:

Mm-hmm.

Sky:

And they'd wear black all the time.

Ali:

Okay.

Sky:

And I was like, "Oh my God, soul sister, like you love black too." And they were like, "No, I actually love color, but if I wear color people will see me."

Ali:

Ah, yeah.

Sky:

And I was like, fuck, like we, we make assumptions about things- Mm … and yet people are con- like a lot of the time they're hiding behind their conditioning. And so we, we did a thing where I'm like, "Okay, well next time I see you, I actually wanna see a little bit of color."

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And the next time they came to see me and we did some mentoring, they actually wore a purple scarf.

Ali:

Wow. And

Sky:

I was like, "That's fucking cool."

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

And I hear that that's what you're kind of saying. It's like, 'cause sometimes it's like all or none.

Ali:

Yes.

Sky:

Okay, now I have to jump on all the social medias and do all the things, and then we overwhelm and flood the nervous system, and then we're like, "Fuck this bitch Sky and

Ali:

Ally." Yeah.

Sky:

Stupid advice, we're not doing it again.

Ali:

Pull it right back. None of it.

Sky:

Right?

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

Whereas like just those small little steps that feel-

Ali:

Safe.

Sky:

Yes.

Ali:

Safe is the word. Feels, feels safe to your body and nervous system.

Sky:

Yeah.

Ali:

Yeah.

Sky:

Is actually what's gonna move the needle-

Ali:

Yeah… Sky: to actually leaning into being seen. That's right. Yeah. Because here's the thing, you get to do it at a pace that feels right and comfortable for you, even if you've got friends encouraging you all the time to jump in the deep end.

Sky:

Yeah. I'm a bit of a like, "Go," and she's like, "Cool, just chill." Just

Ali:

let me get my floaties

Sky:

first. Yeah.

Ali:

But yeah, it's, it's a big one, that visibility, but I think today we've really unpacked that well. Yeah. Stretch yourself, challenge yourself in those micro moments and just try a new way. Try another way.

Sky:

And as usual, if you do this- Mm-hmm we would love to praise you, validate you, and, like, just cheer you on. So let us know. Send us a message at Beyond the Therapy Room on Instagram.

Ali:

Yes.

Sky:

And we'd love to know where you challenged yourself to be seen.

Ali:

For sure.